We Can Do Hard Things

Please be sure to listen to Part 1 of our conversation with Sonya Renee Taylor: ⁠Astrology for Skeptics: Sonya Renee Taylor Reads Our Charts ⁠ In the second part of our soul-shifting conversation, Sonya Renee Taylor returns to read Amanda’s astrological chart and shed more truth and wisdom on why we are the way we are. We explore: - Why Amanda struggles to trust comfort, rest, and security—and how she’s learning to surrender; - Why we can’t wish peace for the world without wishing it for ourselves; - How Glennon, Abby, and Amanda are redefining success—not as “hustle” but as ease, love, and enoughness, right here. For Part 1 of our conversation with Sonya, click here: Astrology for Skeptics: Sonya Renee Taylor Reads Our Charts About Sonya: Sonya Renee Taylor is a New York Times best-selling author of seven books, transformational thought leader, world-renowned activist, artist, and founder of the international movement The Body Is Not An Apology. She is podcast host, sought-after speaker and new world midwife. She is also an intuitive astrologer helping to decipher our unique soul work through the planets. Her work has reached millions of people by exploring the intersections of identity, healing, and social justice using a radical self-love framework. She continues to write, create, speak, teach, and transform lives globally.

The radiant and revolutionary Sonya Renee Taylor joins us to dive deep into astrology, in a conversation that will leave you feeling empowered, braver, and wiser. Sonya illuminates: - How astrology can return us to the wisdom that was ours all along; - How understanding our charts can help us eliminate suffering (the space between the knowing and the doing); and - What Glennon and Abby’s charts say about the way they see the world and themselves. If you’ve ever asked yourself, “Why am I the way I am?”—this conversation is for you. Come back for part two on Thursday to hear Sonya read Amanda’s chart—and to hear Glennon, Abby, and Amanda reflect on how this conversation has changed their lives. About Sonya: Sonya Renee Taylor is a New York Times best-selling author of seven books, transformational thought leader, world-renowned activist, artist, and founder of the international movement The Body Is Not An Apology. She is podcast host, sought-after speaker and new world midwife. She is also an intuitive astrologer helping to decipher our unique soul work through the planets. Her work has reached millions of people by exploring the intersections of identity, healing, and social justice using a radical self-love framework. She continues to write, create, speak, teach, and transform lives globally.

Ashley C. Ford returns to the pod today for a deeply personal, raw, and revelatory conversation about how we can love the world, our people, and ourselves through this trying moment. We explore: - Why we’re no longer certain that “to be loved is to be known”; - Why we resent our people when they don’t understand us—and how to find more love, peace, and acceptance in our relationships; - Abby’s realization that she doesn’t need to “fix” Glennon’s sadness; sometimes partnership looks like staying steady while your person feels it all. For those of us who feel lost, afraid, or alone: Ashley’s wisdom and clarity are exactly what we need. Snuggle in, open your minds and your hearts. We love you. For more of Ashley on We Can Do Hard Things: 52. FORGIVING & FINDING PEACE with ASHLEY C. FORD 53. How to Love Yourself & Let Yourself be Loved with Ashley C. Ford About Ashley: Ashley C. Ford is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, SOMEBODY’S DAUGHTER: A MEMOIR. She is also the former co-host of The HBO companion podcast Lovecraft Country Radio, and of Ben & Jerry’s Into The Mix. Ford lives in Indianapolis, Indiana with her husband, poet and fiction writer, Kelly Stacy, and their chocolate lab Astro Renegade Ford-Stacy.

The legendary, hilarious, and ferociously tender Rosie O’Donnell is here for an unfiltered conversation about how to survive the world while feeling it all. We discuss: - Why she left the U.S.—and how her new life in Ireland is healing her for the very first time; - How to be a mother when you’ve lost your mother; and - The letter Rosie wrote right after Abby’s DUI—and how it helped her heal. Pod Squad: Keep going hard and staying soft. We love you. About Rosie O’Donnell: Rosie O’Donnell is an Emmy Award–winning comedian, actor, producer, and cultural force who has shaped American entertainment for more than four decades. She first rose to national prominence as a stand-up comic and film actor before hosting The Rosie O’Donnell Show, which became one of the most celebrated daytime programs of its era and earned multiple Daytime Emmy Awards. Rosie’s film and television career has spanned everything from A League of Their Own and Sleepless in Seattle to acclaimed roles on The L Word, Curb Your Enthusiasm, SMILF, and And Just Like That. A passionate advocate for LGBTQ+ rights, children and families, and gun violence prevention, she founded Rosie’s Theater Kids and has raised millions for charitable causes throughout her career. Now living in Ireland, Rosie continues to write, paint, make art, and use her voice for justice.

How do we ever know what is enough – or feel like enough – in a world that pushes us to incessantly perform, perfect, collect, and earn? The extraordinary duo Suleika Jaouad and Jon Batiste are here for one of the richest conversations we’ve had about art, love, ambition, spirituality, and what it takes to remain ourselves. Together, we explore: - The “beast” we all carry: fear, perfectionism, control, or ambition—and how facing it is the only way out; - How we can all begin to alchemize our pain into creativity; and - How to hold onto the integrity of art, beauty, and love in a world that’s always searching for “more.” This conversation will help you take a deep breath and finally feel like it’s all enough – including you.. And check out our prior conversations we had with Suleika, the brilliant author of The Book of Alchemy: How to Stay Human; and How to Turn a Mistake into Magic. About Jon Batiste: Jon Batiste is a seven-time Grammy and Academy Award–winning artist whose music moves between jazz, soul, classical, and pop. His ninth studio album, Big Money, was released on August 22nd, and is supported by a national headlining tour with more than 30 stops. Audiences also know Jon from his Oscar-winning score for his chart-topping album Beethoven Blues and the acclaimed documentary American Symphony, which celebrates his artistry, resilience, and love with his wife Suleika at the height of his creative powers. About Suleika Jaouad: Suleika Jaouad is the author of the New York Times bestselling memoirs The Book of Alchemy and Between Two Kingdoms. She writes The Isolation Journals, the #1 Literature newsletter on Substack, and wrote the New York Times “Life, Interrupted” column. A three-time cancer survivor and visual artist, she appears with her husband Jon Batiste in the Oscar-nominated documentary American Symphony.

Who is your Inner Child, and what are they (still) saying? It’s amazing how strongly our little selves show up in our adult lives. Buckle Up – in this hilarious, profound conversation, Glennon, Abby, and Amanda invite their inner children to come forward and share their delights, blessings, and curses with the Pod Squad. Together, we spiral around: - Why some of us become the family “feeler” and others the “fixer,” and how we can all become more whole; - How to honor the part of you who planned, dreamed, or disassociated to survive, without letting that little kid run your whole adult life; and - How Abby is using music, dancing, and play as an antidote to her anxiety.

Did you know that gospels of women leaders were in the Bible — and then in the Fourth Century, they were literally torn out of all Bibles and destroyed??? Except a few of them were buried and discovered a thousand years later. This conversation is about those stories … and why they are so powerful – and so dangerous to power – that they were almost erased forever. If you’ve ever felt like something is missing from the stories you were given about God, the Bible, or your own worth—you’re right. The stories of women’s lives, hearts, and desires have been stolen from us. Now, the brilliant feminist theologian Meggan Watterson is here to help us reclaim them – and it changes everything we know about connecting to ourselves, to faith, and to our own power. Join us now. About Meggan: Meggan Watterson is a Harvard-trained feminist theologian and the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Mary Magdalene Revealed. Meggan’s most recent book, The Girl Who Baptized Herself, is about the first century saint Thecla, and how the scripture that contains her story reads like a manual for defying the patriarchy, and following the voice of our own soul. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthingsTikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

Pod Squad: It’s just us this episode. Glennon, Abby, and Amanda are snuggling up on the metaphorical couch to answer your questions and spiral together about: – Is writing about yourself self-indulgent? – Is camping a vacation or a trip? (and why lesbians can’t seem to figure that out); and – How Amanda is finally setting down the plates she’s been spinning for decades. Snuggle up—you won’t want to miss this one. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

At last, the brilliant force of nature, Cynthia Erivo, joins us for a deeply personal, mind-blowing, and heart-swelling conversation about dignity and belonging. We discuss: - How to survive betrayal and learn to fully trust again; - How to build a circle of people who will always get on the broom with you; - How Cynthia chooses and prepares for roles like Elphaba—and why she doesn’t believe in method acting; and - How to find light, joy, and creativity in our darkest moments. Hold onto your witch hats, Pod Squad. This conversation is a ride—and an offering. Enjoy. About Cynthia: Cynthia Erivo is a Grammy Emmy and Tony Award-winning actress, singer and producer. She burst onto West End and Broadway stages in THE COLOR PURPLE and has since taken the world by storm. Erivo most recently starred as Elphaba opposite Ariana Grande’s Glinda in Part 1 of the record-breaking film adaptation of the hit musical WICKED. WICKED: For Good is being released THIS WEEK on November 21st. And Erivo’s brand new book SIMPLY MORE is available today. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

We made a movie. You can watch it now. Our first film – COME SEE ME IN THE GOOD LIGHT– is now available for you to watch on Apple TV starting this Friday, November 14. Winner of the Sundance Festival Favorite Award, and hailed by critics as “unforgettable,” “luminous” and “revelatory” – COME SEE ME IN THE GOOD LIGHT – about our beloved friends Andrea Gibson and Meg Falley, and their love story with each other and with life, is exactly what we need, exactly when we need it. It will make the world gentler, braver, and more beautiful. Today, Meg Falley is sharing the brutal, beautiful story of Andrea’s “alleged death,” how Andrea continues to show up in lightning, music, and everyday miracles, and how this gorgeous film is helping her walk through her grief. Listen to this soul-shifting conversation – and see why it sent Glennon and Meg directly to the tattoo shop for piercings. And witness Andrea and Meg’s life-changing love story for yourself: Watch COME SEE ME IN THE GOOD LIGHT on Apple TV starting this Fri, 11/14. #ComeSeeMeInTheGoodLight About Meg: Megan Falley is a nationally-ranked slam poet and the author of three full-length collections of poetry – most recently her book “Drive Here and Devastate Me”. Since transitioning to writing prose, excerpts from her memoir-in-progress have won several first- and second-place national prizes. She runs an online writing workshop called “Poems That Don’t Suck” which has been heralded as “a degree’s worth of education in 5 short weeks.” Premiering at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival—where it went on to win the Festival Favorite Award—Come See Me in the Good Light was quickly embraced by audiences and soon after picked up for distribution by Apple TV+ where it will be released globally on November 14, 2025. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom – MacArthur Genius award winner and brilliant chronicler of our times – unmasks the American stories that got us to this place—and explains, with amazing precision and clarity, how we can imagine our way out. We discuss: - How the MAGA story broke through and became the winning story; - How money hijacked democracy; - The little-known history of the Black Panther party of the American South; - Why Responsibility is Freedom; - How to frame and reclaim the American story through radical humanity: art, truth, creativity, and community. Join us for this riveting, smart, funny conversation about power, hope, and writing a freer future. About Tressie: Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom is a professor and principal investigator with the Center for Information, Technology, and Public Life at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, NY Times columnist, and 2020 MacArthur Fellow. Her work has earned national and international recognition for the urgency and depth of its incisive critical analysis of technology, higher education, culture, media, class, race, and gender. Recent accolades include being named the 2023 winner of the Joseph B. and Toby Gittler Prize by Brandeis University for her “critical perspective and analysis to some of the greatest social challenges we face today,” the recipient of the 2025 Thomas Wolfe Prize, and a 2025-26 National Humanities Center Fellow. Her most recent book, THICK: And Other Essays was listed as one the 30 best nonfiction books of the last 30 years by the L.A. Times Festival of Books. Two books are forthcoming with Random House Books. Follow Tressie: @tressiemcphd on Instagram @tressiemcphd.bsky.social on Bluesky Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthingsTikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

In this delightful, hilarious, and deeply honest conversation, our friends (and neighbors!) Jimmy Kimmel and Molly McNearney tell us: - What really happened the night the Jimmy Kimmel Live show was suspended, - How they told their kids, - How they loved each other through the crisis; - How we can stay brave, be steady, love each other, and love our country—even during the worst of times; and - Of course, Jimmy’s favorite recent pranks. This conversation is a gift. You won’t want to miss it. About Jimmy and Molly: About Molly: Molly McNearney is an Emmy winning writer, producer, and actor. She began her career as an assistant for JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE in 2004 and has since worked her way up to become Head Writer and Executive Producer which she has served for the last decade. McNearney has been a writer for THE OSCAR AWARDS four times and THE EMMY AWARDS three times. She can also be seen acting in DUMPLIN’ & MURDER MYSTERY for Netflix. McNearney, her husband Jimmy, and their two children live in Los Angeles. About Jimmy Jimmy Kimmel is the host and executive producer of the Emmy® Award-winning “Jimmy Kimmel Live.” With over 22 years on the air, the show produces some of the most popular comedy bits, and features a star-studded guest lineup including actors, musicians, athletes, comedians, authors, politicians and newsmakers. In 2019, Jimmy wrote and illustrated a children’s book titled “The Serious Goose.” All of Jimmy’s profits were donated to children’s hospitals across the United States. Kimmel lives in Los Angeles with his wife Molly McNearney and their children, Oprah and Steadman. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

Glennon, Abby, and Amanda are getting cozy and diving deep into what it means to actually feel your feelings. They discuss: - How they’re getting through the awkward, messy “middle school of middle age”; - Why feelings are 90-second-waves—and why thinking about them keeps you stuck in anxiety; - How to stop using other people to regulate your nervous system; and - The radical truth that your body already knows what to do—you just have to let it. We don’t need to think, process, or solve our way out of our feelings. We just need to feel them. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

We’re coming together today to support Gaza’s wounded children with no surviving parents — Donate whatever you can now: https://pcrf1.app.neoncrm.com/forms/pcrf-laocie-orphan-sponsorship-2025 There is no such thing as other people’s children. We must care for the children of Gaza like they’re our own—because they are. Our friend Akram Ibrahim is a Palestinian American volunteer with the Palestine Children’s Relief Fund (PCRF). He and his family have worked tirelessly for decades to raise awareness of the plight and beauty of the Palestinian people. Akram shares what ceasefire means to him as someone who has spent his life fighting for Palestine and Palestinian lives. TO SUPPORT THE WOUNDED ORPHANED CHILDREN OF GAZA TODAY, DONATE NOW: https://pcrf1.app.neoncrm.com/forms/pcrf-laocie-orphan-sponsorship-2025 Donations will go directly to PCRF, with Glennon and Abby matching the first $100,000. Together, we can channel our heartbreak into action, and care for our children. Akram’s list of Palestinian artists and businesses to follow and support: - @houseofpalestine: resource sharing Palestinian culture, heritage, and traditions to visitors in San Diego. If you would like to find a Palestinian restaurant/business/creator/etc in your area, you can reach out to them directly. - @hintoftatreez: studio for Palestinian embroidery apparel, called Tatreez, plus how-to kits and workshops - @jenanmatari: Palestinian author who just released her children's book, "Everything Grows in Jiddo's Garden" - @elfunoun_troupe: one of the most famous Palestinian dance troupes in Palestine. Follow their page @friendsofelfunoun to support them and learn Dabke (folk dance) around the US when they come for their 2026 tour. - @paliroots and @paliapparel: studios designing and selling Palestine-inspired clothing - @knafehqueens: shop for award-winning Knafeh (Palestinian dessert) - @sababafalafelshop: authentic falafel shop based out of Anaheim, with a clothing brand that donates 50% of proceeds to humanitarian relief in Gaza: @westbankhoodie - @jerusalemroastery: destination for nuts, spices, snacks, desserts straight from Palestine - @sawasocal: SoCal-based organization for Palestine cultural events & workshops Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

Dearly Beloved Pod Squad: We are gathered here today to rage about menopause. Glennon details how perimenopause is wrecking havoc on her body, mind, and relationships—and how maddening it is that our medical professionals give us no real information about what’s going on. We discuss night sweats, beehive brain, fire-ant itching, and Ms. Frizzle hair. Plus, Glennon is joined by Melani Sanders (@justbeingmelani)—the founder of the We Do Not Care Club (WDNC)—and maybe the only hope we have left. About Melani: Melani Sanders is a digital creator and the fearless founder of the We Do Not Care Movement™. Her viral WDNC reels and posts capture the humor, heart, and chaos of perimenopause and menopause, midlife in general, motherhood, and real life. Melani lives in West Palm Beach, Florida with her husband, three sons, and dog. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

Brandi Carlile joins Glennon for her rawest and most vulnerable conversation yet, sharing the story behind her deeply personal new album Returning to Myself—the songs that broke her open, the love that holds her steady, and what it means to truly come home. In this family meeting, Brandi bares her heart and reminds us we’re only here for the blink of an eye—so we must stay relentlessly joyful, soft, and human—and we must, together, find the beauty in the wildfire sun. About Brandi: Brandi Carlile is an eleven-time Grammy-winning singer, songwriter, producer, and activist. Over two decades and landmark albums like By the Way, I Forgive You and In These Silent Days, she has co-founded the Highwomen, launched the all-female Girls Just Wanna Weekend festival, founded the Looking Out Foundation, and helped bring Joni Mitchell back to the stage for a historic, Grammy-winning live album. Brandi Carlile’s new album, Returning to Myself, will be out October 24th. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

This life-saving conversation is for anyone who has—or loves someone who has—breasts. It’s what to look for, what to ask, what screenings you *actually need* (not just what is offered), and every decision point you have (even if it’s not offered to you) if you are facing surgery. This Breast Cancer Awareness Month, Glennon, Abby, and Amanda empower us with the most vital tool we have: information. Amanda reflects on how self-advocacy led her to her own breast cancer diagnosis—and we hear from the pod squad about how Amanda’s transparency helped save their lives. Then, we’re joined by Amanda’s renowned doctor, Dr. Lucy M. De La Cruz, who reminds us that every patient has agency—and shares how to choose the treatment path that’s right for you. And special shout out and thanks to Pod Squader Lori Mihalich-Levin (@mindfulreturn) for being such a special part of this story! If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with breast cancer, please save this episode or send it to the people you love. We love you. For more on Amanda’s Breast Cancer journey: - Amanda's Diagnosis and What's Next (Part 1) - Amanda’s Diagnosis and What’s Next (Part 2) - Amanda Returns Post Surgery: Here’s What She Wants You to Know - What Amanda’s Learned About Life, Love & Community (Post Surgery Pt 2) - Early Detection, Mammograms & Breast Cancer Care with Dr. Rachel Brem - Expert Advice on Genetic Testing, Cancer Prevention & Care Disparities with Dr. Rachel Brem About Dr. De La Cruz: Dr. Lucy M. De La Cruz is an internationally recognized breast surgical oncologist and the youngest Latina Chief of Breast Surgery in an academic institution in the United States. She serves as Chief of Breast Surgery and Director of the Betty Lou Ourisman Breast Health Center at MedStar Georgetown University Hospital, a nationally ranked center of excellence in breast cancer care. Dr. De La Cruz specializes in nipple-sparing mastectomies with structural preservation and resensation, with a focus on highly specialized single-stage implant reconstruction. Patients describe her not only as a world-class surgeon, but as a fierce advocate and mentor—especially for women navigating the complexities of diagnosis, treatment, and survivorship.

Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody join us for a heartfelt, soulful, and delightfully chaotic conversation about: - How to make a marriage last; - The importance of quiet; and - how we can hold tight to our own humanity while demanding a more humanitarian world. This conversation is an urgent reminder of how we can all use our voices to make the world more beautiful. Join us now. About Mandy: Mandy Patinkin is a Tony Award–winning actor, singer, and storyteller whose career spans four decades across stage, film, and television. He’s known for unforgettable roles in Evita, Sunday in the Park with George, The Princess Bride, Homeland, and Criminal Minds. He has toured the world with his solo concerts and collaborations with icons like Patti LuPone and Nathan Gunn. Since 2020, Mandy and his wife, fellow performing artist Kathryn Grody, have offered a delightfully unvarnished glimpse into 45 years of marriage online—sparking live shows with their son Gideon and a new Lemonada Media podcast, Don’t Listen to Us. About Kathryn: Kathryn Grody is an Obie Award–winning actor and writer whose work spans theater, film, and television. She won Obies for Top Girls and The Marriage of Bette and Boo, earned a Drama Desk nomination for her one-woman play A Mom’s Life. She has long been active in advocacy with groups including the International Rescue Committee and Downtown Women for Change. This fall, she premieres her new one-woman show, A Radical, Rollicking Rumination on the Optimism of Staying Alive, exploring the transition into elderhood at 78 years young. On their new podcast, “Don’t Listen to Us,” Mandy and Kathryn are giving you unqualified advice on everything including love, life, dolphins, work, art, bewilderments, relationships, pasta, aging, embarrassments, triumphs, ponderings on how to get through this crazy world. No question too small, no dilemma too big, no story too strange, no musing too trivial! All are welcome. 00:00:00 Introduction 00:03:41 Welcome Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody 00:05:37 Mandy playfully promotes Kathryn’s new show 00:09:31 The surprising reaction from young people 00:10:48 Mandy Patinkin’s dog, Becky 00:13:26 Mandy on how he feels about getting old 00:15:40 What Kathryn does after Mandy goes to bed 00:16:46 Mandy and Kathryn debate a recurring “issue” in their marriage 00:20:06 The first time Kathryn saw Mandy 00:27:10 Mandy and Kathryn share their repetitive marital issues 00:31:39 A hysteria about losing time 00:34:03 How a pause in the conversation can leave space for others to join 00:38:45 Glennon shares her appreciation for Abby’s gift of conversation 00:45:30 The gift of having a more talkative partner 00:50:35 Kathryn on how we need to be more generous in sharing resources 00:52:48 Holding on and trying to make the impermanent parts of life stand still 00:55:54 Why a wishing well is meaningful to Mandy Patinkin 01;02:50 How Mandy’s and Kathryn’s Judaism forms them today 01:08:36 Mandy Patinkin’s powerful thoughts on the Middle East 01:12:40 Why women should run the world 01:15:28 Mandy Patinkin’s plea to younger / older listeners 01:19:31 Mandy does not want to meet Glennon, Abby, and Amanda Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthingsTikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

Join us for the hilarious, unfiltered, and vulnerable story of the time Glennon tried therapeutic psychedelics. At last, Glennon reveals to the Pod Squad: - The mishap that turned a “micro-dose” macro; - What Glennon encountered on her guided psychedelic journey; and - How Sinéad O’Connor, a basement vision, and the magic words “I don’t know” helped Glennon heal. Disclaimer: We are sharing lived experience, not medical advice. 00:00:00 Welcome to WCDHT 00:04:30 Glennon sets the stage for her treatment with therapeutic psychedelics 00:05:45 Psychedelics & rigid thinkers 00:09:50 Glennon’s journey prep 00:14:58 Glennon’s micro-dosing trial run 00:18:46 Glennon realized she macro-dosed 00:27:01 Abby gets involved to help 00:35:49 The journey day 00:42:00 Glennon wants to ask “Why am I so scared?” 00:50:30 Glennon shares the visions she had 00:56:21 Abby on how Glennon came down from her journey 00:58:57 After the journey and how Glennon felt 00:59:31 Sinéad O’Connor appeared 01:00:38 Glennon’s next phase and how it helped her heal Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow

We all have something inside us that knows exactly what we want. Katie Gavin joins us to talk about: How to identify that kernel of desire inside—and then have the courage to follow it; Why love addiction can feel like being stuck on a “treadmill in the cosmos”; and the moment Katie called Glennon a Femme/Dom—and how it changed Glennon’s life forever. Katie Gavin’s album: What A Relief About Katie: Katie Gavin is a musician and member of the pop band MUNA, and released her debut solo album What A Relief this past October 2024—an album about a deep desire for connection and the obstacles standing in the way of achieving that. Gavin’s explorations of desire and intimacy feel time-worn and necessary – songs that might teach a generation if not how to live, exactly, then at least how to look within oneself for guidance about how to move forward. Katie is currently in the studio with MUNA working on their forthcoming album. Follow We Can Do Hard Things on: Youtube — @wecandohardthingsshow Instagram — @wecandohardthings TikTok — @wecandohardthingshow